Wandering Tree ®, LLC Podcast
Wandering Tree ®, LLC Podcast is the ultimate audio companion for curious and adventurous minds, offering a journey through thought-provoking discussions and unique perspectives on life, culture, and the journey of an adoptee. This show has been established with the simple goal of reaching other adoptees who may benefit from just hearing other adoptees share on the lived experience. Host, Adoptee Lisa Ann, will share the tangled roots of the life long journey as an adoptee, the search for biological connections, the good and bad of reunions and how saying "I am adopted" has connected to so many others. The candid discussions between Adoptee Lisa Ann and her guests will tackle the term "adoption" and how it is covers so many aspects of our society.
Wandering Tree ®, LLC Podcast
S6:E3 Finding Adoption Journey Harmony with Mark Wills
Born amidst cultural complexities in Korea to an American soldier and a Korean mother, Mark Wills faced an extraordinary start to life. Discover how Mark's journey from an orphanage to a diverse family of 25 siblings in America shaped him into the notary coach and family man he is today. This episode of the Wandering Tree Podcast highlights Mark's experiences, the enduring impact of early love from his biological mother, and how gratitude has played a pivotal role in his personal growth and success.
With Mark's personal reflections, we challenge conventional narratives and highlight the importance of empathy and understanding for both adoptees and adoptive parents. By sharing anecdotes and insights, we aim to foster healing and grace within the adoptee community, encouraging listeners to view life as a continual journey rather than a final destination. Mark's story is a testament to the power of self-discovery and healing. We discuss overcoming childhood traumas, the impact of control and overthinking on relationships, and the journey towards harmony with one's past. This episode emphasizes the importance of unpacking emotional baggage, employing empathy, and accepting the complexities of human ties. Join us as we explore how embracing our narratives and turning trauma into triumph can lead to a more realistic harmony with our personal stories.
And that early love that she gave me has helped me through my journey. I know not all adopted children were blessed with that, and so I think that's an important part of my story.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Wandering Tree Podcast. I am your host, lisa Ann. We are an experience-based show focused on sharing the journey of adoption, identity, life search and reunion. Well, welcome to the show, mark. It's a pleasure to have you here today. Thanks for coming on board with us, and I would just like to jump right in to the conversation and have you share with our listeners who you are and a little bit about your adoption story, if you please don't mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't mind. Thank you so much for having me. I mean, anytime I can talk about my adoption story or just help someone else through their journey, it brings a big smile to my face. So thank you for having me. So who am I? Wow, I'm. From a professional standpoint. I am the educator of the Loan Signing System. I have about 11,000 amazing human beings in my community that I support on their journey of being the best notary public they can be. I'm America's largest notary coach and helping families really try to earn income through this amazing niche. I'm very proud of me being a leader, because had you asked me 10 years ago, I would have been like you're crazy but that but that's been a really crazy cool journey. I am married to the most amazing woman on the history of this planet and I have a son, and so I'm a father and husband. So that's who I am, and so you know. Thinking back to my journey on my adoption story, I'll just kind of start from the beginning, if that's cool.
Speaker 2:I think that's fantastic, and I also love the fact that you are categorizing yourself as a husband and a father. Sometimes we forget that piece of everyone's story that there is more to them than just adoptee. So thank you so much for doing that level set. That's really awesome. So go for it. You're so welcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, so I am. I was born in Korea, and so I am a product of the postKorean War occupation of Americans in Korea. So for a quick history lesson, back in the 50s we had North Korea and South Korea in war, and then America supported South Korea and then South Korea was a little bit afraid of retaliation, so we had literally hundreds of thousands of Americans occupied in South Korea up until about the 70s early 80s is what I should say and so the Korean culture felt, very felt like we were being intrusive. And so let me give you a crazy statistic. I am a child of an American soldier and a Korean mom, and they say that over 200,000 American, half American, half Korean babies were born in the 60s and 70s for American soldiers and left in Korea, and so I was one of those children who were left in Korea. And so, but because of that, the Korean culture and I'm going to use the word because it is what it's very true is we're racist against any half American that were left behind. They looked at us kind of Occupy is not the right word, but we had hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Korea and we were birthing children that we were not taking care of. So they call them dust of the souls, and there's hundreds, there's 200,000 of children just like me. So where I was very blessed and I and I don't and I don't say that lightly, because I was with my biological mom until the age of about one one and a half, and that early love that she gave me has helped me through my journey, and I know not all adopted children were blessed with that, and so I think that's an important part of my story.
Speaker 1:And so about a year and a half into my childhood, my mom made a quick realization my birth mom, I should say made a quick realization that I should probably be given up for adoption, because it's not going to be very pleasant for me to be raised in Korea in a culture that was racist against half Americans. So my mom at that moment put me into an orphanage. So I was an orphan in Korea for about another year and at two and a half I got adopted by this family in, actually, ventura County, california, and so I was then an international adoptee. And so they sent me on a plane and they sent me over to America and I was then Mark Beasley, and so I was adopted by this family called the Beasleys, and so they bit off a little bit more than they could chew and so they had me until I was about seven years old and they had a moment, an awakening in their family, that it was the wrong decision to adopt me. And so they then gave me up for adoption and I kind of make a dramatic point, but it's kind of the truth that you know. They returned me to the system, like you return something to Amazon or you return something to Costco. They're like, oh, we've had you for five years, yeah, we're good. And then they put me into the foster care system and so by seven and a half I was in foster care and American foster care system in Southern California.
Speaker 1:I went to two different foster families at that time. Then I was adopted at about seven and a half years old, eight years old, into the Wills family. My name is Mark Ryan Wills and the story gets a little crazier because then I was adopted into a family of 25 children. So I went from being adopted, being adopted an orphan, to being adopted foster care. Now I'm also almost in a group home type of setting and I'm I'm, I guess, as your audience kind of knows what that is, and so I went from all this into a almost a group home setting, but I wouldn't change it for the world, and so then I ate 17 and a half. I moved out trying to figure out who I am and who I was, and that is my story in a nutshell. How did I do?
Speaker 2:You did fantastic. I am intrigued because you are not the only adoptee I know who has been pushed back into a system, and I know that the adoptees in my inner circle are appalled at that practice. I don't get it. I practice, I don't get it. I humanly just don't get it. And I'm always intrigued when I meet someone who's been in that position. And at seven and a half, I cry for you internally and probably a little bit externally, just because I can't wrap my brain around how a human such as yourself wrestles with that and comes out with such a level of positivity. So kudos to you. I know we're going to talk a little bit about that in terms of mental health, but yeah, that just boggles my mind.
Speaker 1:Well, let's dive into it if you may?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to. Let's talk about a girl.
Speaker 1:That's what we're here for. Yeah, into it if you may. Yeah, let's talk about a girl. That's what we're here for. Yeah, no, look, you know it's funny is your sentiment is how I took it for decades, like how could they do that to me? And what I've learned on my journey is that is it's a very myopic view and and that didn't do them justice, like I don't know the struggle they went through. I don't know the struggle they went through. I don't know the struggle they had of me, right, I mean, what they did is had the hugest hearts. They adopted a child from Korea. Frankly, they bit off more than they could chew.
Speaker 1:And so by just making it black and white, you know if I can really get deep for a moment. I think the problem actually I hate to say the problem, but I've met a lot of adoptees I've met 20 of them in my family and when everything becomes so black and white, then things become polarizing. Things become polarizing. That's when you can't heal. And so, yes, do I believe what they did was wrong? Yeah, 100%. Would I do that? No, but I have to give them grace that they tried everything they could. I have to give them grace that they tried everything they could. I have to give them grace that they went to therapy. I have to understand that. You know they adopted a child from Korea who only spoke Korean, thrown into a family who only speaks English. I could only imagine quote unquote the terror I was. And so you know, decisions are a two-way street. Now, again, this is not me necessarily saying that what they did was right, but what it does is becomes less polarizing and black and white, and I think if the adopted community can stop being so polarizing, they can heal. And again, this is not me about saying what they did was right. I have chosen to forgive them, but when everything becomes so polarizing, you can't open up to love, you can't open up to healing, and that's when your mental health is really a struggle.
Speaker 1:And I was that person for decades until I went to massive therapy. And you know, my therapist said you know you're saying it you're not allowing them to be real humans Like they also have their set of problems, their set of feelings, their set of circumstances. And so, while what they did I would never do, but I still need to humanize them as real human beings who have feelings and issues and crises, but everything stemmed from them trying their best, and one of the best things that my therapist told me or has helped me is, you know, like everybody does the best they can with the tools they have, and if we're going to hold people to this level that we don't even hold ourselves to, it's not really fair. Like I know, I lack tools, and if you're going to judge me on my worst day, I hope you don't Right, and so I don't judge them on their worst day, and so I've.
Speaker 1:I've been able to heal, because that moment's not so polarizing. It hurts, you know. I find tears coming to my eyes and talking to you, but that doesn't mean that they're the devil, and I think that it becomes so black and white that that holds our community from really taking that next step into I can breathe again, and so- yeah, very well said.
Speaker 2:You know there's so much around that that we could continue to dive into Examples. We do participate in groups and social media. We do have a tendency to shed at times not all the time, but probably more times than we want to admit like this black cloud over two people or two you know roles in the story. A lot of times it last season's closing six series episode and three of my guests were so afraid to say that they had good adoptive parents and I encouraged them to go ahead and say that on mic so that we could start normalizing. It's okay to have love for somebody that took you and raised you and loved you. There is nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make you bad because you liked it. It doesn't make them bad because they were good at it. It doesn't make their birth mom or your birth dad horrid because they relinquished you. It's just the facts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and look, you know that statement that helped me through the healing process and I'm still through it. I mean, I mean it's a journey, right, it's not. It's not a destination. As you know, I choose to believe that all humans are good and they do the best they can with the tools they have. Like, everyone has traumas. Everyone's living their life through the traumas they experienced, and and and my, and so did my first adoptive family. Like, look, again, I'm not saying that what they did was right, but what I'm saying is they're humans and humans are flawed. And sometimes you have this expectation that because they adopt us, they shouldn't be flawed humans. And I've made some decisions that aren't the best in my life and I'd like to think that you know I'm not held to those stats standard, because we're all flawed. And so you know they did the best with the tools they had. Their heart was big, they led with their heart and they they bit off more than they can chew, and I think you would, they would say that to you and but it doesn't mean their intentions weren't right. It doesn't mean that they didn't try.
Speaker 1:And and the problem I with a lot of our adoptive stories is somebody has to be the villain, and I would argue that no one has to be the villain. I would argue that our journey is just our journey. We don't need to, you know, victimize somebody. That's their fault. Sometimes it's just life, you know, and I'm a business coach for a living and so my pragmatic ways, you know, may come from being a business coach as well, but you know, I have 20 adoptive children as brothers and sisters. Half of them are just what I just said, victims of the situation, and half of them are like me, choose to use you just part of the journey. It's not the journey, it's not the destination. And so, and you know, I just have a sister who I love and adore, but she just lives in the past and she just wants to. Somebody has to be the victim, the villain in the story, and I just don't think that's true.
Speaker 2:Well, do you think that comes from the Joseph Campbell version of how to write and writing mentality, where there is the formula of a hero's journey? And the only reason I bring it up is because you said someone has to be a villain. So let's apply that, let's apply Joseph Campbell's vision of the hero's journey, which there is. You know, there has to be a villain, there has to be something that pushes you against the norms, and then someone comes in and they're the hero, and then you have this big, fluffy ending. And so if we take that at a little bit of face value and we know that that particular concept of creating narratives has been in the you know, english, us storytelling footprint for years, we can see very quickly how the hero's journey formula and the adoption narrative have come together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's crazy, I never thought about it. It's fascinating to think in real time. I'm processing everything you're saying. It may have to it. You know, yeah, you know. I mean, you know, like I said, I'm a business coach. A lot of my philosophies come from the business coach in me, but the funny part is a lot of my philosophy as a business coach come from the healing journey of being an adoptee. And so what I'm going to state is, you know, kind of a little bit of both sides of that is, I truly believe that every event that happens in our life could be looked at as an asset or liability, and I think it's a choice you make.
Speaker 1:Are you the victim or the victor? And kind of going to, what made me think about was this whole storyline, because I think there always has to be a victim and a victor in every story. But I think you can choose who you are in your story, and I choose to be the victim, a victor, excuse me, not the victim. And I think too many times in our adoptive community it's easy to play the victim because no one's going to blame. You Like I totally get it, that was shitty, like your upbringing was terrible. You're like, yeah, it was, and so it's easy to fall into the victim because no one's going to blame you.
Speaker 1:But I think there's a moment where, if you look at an event and you make a decision that day or that moment, is this going to be an asset or a liability? And in my business coaching it's the same thing. Like you just got rejected from a sale, is that going to be, is that an asset or liability? Can you learn from why you got rejected in the sale and then not do it the next time? Or are're going to go home and not go out and market your business? And so you can. I believe you can pinpoint this to everything. And look, I'm not naive, so I don't want to blow back saying, oh Mark, well, it's not easy to look at a traumatic event as an asset or liability. And I challenge you Well, it could be, yeah, it could be a tool.
Speaker 2:I mean, we've been talking about your healing journey and your therapy journey and one of the things I've been advocating for on this podcast is find the tools that work for you. Not everybody can go to therapy. I haven't been able to have that in my tool belt until recently. What broke that open Virtual telemedic therapy? That's broken that open for me. That, right there, made it a possibility. I've decided to I would argue- that argue.
Speaker 1:The step before that was the willingness to do it.
Speaker 2:Okay, fair, there is that.
Speaker 1:I think there's a lot of people who don't have that yet, right, because for me, I was like you I'm 46, and it took me about 38 to really dive into it. Right, I used to look at my, my ability to compartmentalize as a superpower, not as a weakness, and it's actually a weakness, and that I was compartmentalized. What happened to me? And now I realize that's actually a weakness. Now the strength is sharing my story, like I am right now, and the willingness to heal, I think was step one in that journey you had and we're all in a different place on that moment of like I gotta do better and something has to change. And so I didn't wanna discredit your strength when you said that. That's why I brought that up, because it takes a strong person to realize this is the step I have to take. Yeah, thank you said that that's why.
Speaker 2:I brought that up because it takes a strong person to realize this is the step I have to take. Yeah, thank you for that. I appreciate it. I probably fundamentally agree with you that it takes the first of many steps. I don't know if there's just one that says I probably need help or I need outside help, and then how you go about that can be any number of things Interesting. You would say compartmentalization, because I have often said I am the queen of that. In my house we joke not so much anymore, but a lot of the time we used to joke, put it in the box.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put it in the box. I'm going to put it in the box, right? Oh, you know what it's in the box? And then something would come and that box would start to lift just a little bit and then the next sentence around that would be you're leaking, your box is leaking. I cannot tell you how many times over the last decade I heard that, and it was to help me. I get it. But at the same time it was just so unbelievably frustrating. So the first was acknowledging yeah, I compartmentalize, I am the queen. I put a lot of stuff in the box. Don't touch that box, because the minute you touch that box it's going to leak. So, yeah, you no offense taken and challenging me there. I love the fact that you know we've got that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is is, I think, a lot of adult. The way we survived was by compartmentalizing as kids, and that's what I didn't realize until I got on my healing journey. It's like, look, I was a seven-year-old putting away this feeling of rejectionold, putting away this feeling of rejection and putting away this feeling into a little box and that, like you said, the box will always leak. I love that analogy. And it leaked into my marriage, you know, and so it leaked into my relationships, it leaked into my business, and when I realized that, you know, compartmentalization is actually a weakness and not a strength, my life changed for the better, my marriage changed for the better.
Speaker 1:But I think again, it's an interesting topic because that's how we survived right, how in the world does a child deal with the pain of heartbreak which feels like death? And the answer is compartmentalization. Sometimes people can't do it and that's why they get into drugs or they get into things that numb those feelings. And so, you know, we were some of the lucky ones who were able to compartmentalize, but as you get older, understanding that that's actually not a strength, it is a very powerful moment that I had in my journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Was there a tipping point that led you to that particular moment? Because, leaking into all of our you know other lifestyle items, that's so common and it does have an adverse effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was almost losing my marriage and you know, I almost lost my marriage from compartmentalization and there was a moment, if I had to be very vulnerable, that I was taking out all my childhood issues on my wife and that wasn't okay and I knew at that moment I had to figure it out because she was too amazing to let go. So that was the tipping point. Up until then, like I hate to say this, people were just kind of a, you know, I knew they're going to be in and out of my life. I just, I just was what it was and I was blamed on.
Speaker 1:Oh them, when I realized it was me the whole time, and that was the aha moment that I had to make and look in the mirror and I had to be better for her, I had to be better for my community, I had to be better for my son, and so, yeah, not losing her. And when I realized that pushing her away was just what another way to protect myself and that's what a lot of adopted kids do, like I don't want to, I'm not going to get hurt first, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to hurt you before you hurt me, and that's how we protect our little hearts when we were kids and now that we're adults we have the power to like, protect ourselves. And so I realized at that moment I couldn't do it, and almost losing my wife like was the worst thing for me.
Speaker 2:Man, so many parallels between you and I. I also have a history of cutting people out and my words going with that is well, I'm just done with them, I've given them all the runway. And really what that means is somehow I set up unrealistic expectations that they were never going to meet, Because I don't understand some of the humanity of, of you know, those types of back and forth relationships. I didn't grow with that, that concept, right yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, we're all kind of cut from the same cloth. And I say us, I mean the adopted community. You know, like you know, we, we went through some painful stuff that no one should go through. But let me, let me tell you this right now, let me say it as loud as I can, for the people in the back, is that if I had the childhood that I dreamed of, I wouldn't be the man that I am today and I wouldn't change that for the world. Man, you know, as painful as it was, as crappy as it felt journey I was on, like I wouldn't be empathetic, I wouldn't be sympathetic, I wouldn't want to see other win, I wouldn't want to, you know, do better for myself. And so you know, again, it goes back to that statement is an event, an asset or a liability? And I believe if we really put things in that light, it becomes easier to take that next step. But again, I don't want to sit on a soapbox and say like I'm still healing, I feel myself integrating in this conversation as we speak. So it's like you know, it's just I'm on a journey and I want to help anyone else who's on the same journey. But the journey really, in my opinion, starts realizing everything can't be black and white, like there's gray.
Speaker 1:Humans are humans. Humans are flawed. You know, the person who's still mad at their adoptive parent or their birth mom probably has done something so shitty that they don't want to admit it, but they're not judging themselves in the same way. They are others we are. What makes us beautiful is that we're flawed, and so if we can see flaws in others and be like look, that's part of like who. What makes them human, and that's when I think forgiveness happens and I think grace happens first. Forgiveness is second in the healing process.
Speaker 2:You've mentioned several times now, healing is a journey, not a destination, and there's a lot of ways to get there. And if it's a journey, where do you really think you are on the journey? You seem very positive. Well, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, the truth is this I still think I'm in the beginning of it. You know, I think I'm still in the beginning of my journey. It is I have so much to unpack, but you know, the thing is, my suitcase is open and I'm starting to take out the clothes and and I am so grateful for that, and so I think I'm in the beginning. I hope I'm never at the end. You know, I have a saying in my community is if you're not growing, you're dying, and that's my belief is like. So I hope it never ends and it is a journey, man. It is a journey Every day I ask questions, I question myself, I question my journey, but I think it's all healthy. But I will never compartmentalize again. But those days are behind me. I know it's a big character flaw of mine and, like I said, I used to see it as a strength and I totally understand that it's not, you know.
Speaker 1:You know what I'll say too and I don't know if anyone can resonate with this is I am very blessed to be successful. You know my business. I've helped a lot of human beings in my industry, a lot of humans and and. But the reason I share that is because I used to work 20 hour days and I used to work. I used to say my my work ethic was a badge of honor, but I realized it's because I didn to work 20-hour days and I used to say my work ethic was a badge of honor, but I realized it's because I didn't want to sit with my own thoughts and if I could stay busy I didn't have to think about the pain. I can keep that box closed.
Speaker 1:Speaking of carmelization is that I can fill my brain with work and those boxes would never leak, and so the more I worked, the less they would leak. And then I realized my overworking was actually a weakness again, and so that was something else I had to improve upon. So I no longer work 20-hour days. I'm very proud to say I work eight-hour days and I'm proud that spinning out of control and I feel like I got to go work and just stop. Now I just sit with those feelings, and so that's all part of the journey. That's what I was saying at the beginning, like I'm still trying to understand when I get sped up, when I want to compartmentalize, when I have to do this. But I used to be scared to sit with my thoughts and I can look, I can share with your audience that I'm no longer scared to sit with my thoughts, like let's do it, man, like let's figure it out and let's let's keep pushing through this journey.
Speaker 2:I'm intrigued by that. I am a self-proclaimed overthinker and I actually have a baseball hat that says I believe it says paused, paused, overthinking. And I have pushed a position that I have a position that as almost a strength as well, which means I've taken this item and I have thought it to the death. It's death right, whatever that is. And so bring it, bring it. What are you thinking about? Yep, thought about that. What about this? Yep, thought about that. What about this? And I can do that in pretty much any situation, because I am constantly cycling and it's exhausting. I can't even tell you how exhausting.
Speaker 1:Well, let me, let me, let me, let me get deep with you, dude, like I used to be. I'm still like that, frankly, but I am now aware of it, and so I would tell you that. I would argue that you are kind of a control freak because we weren't in control as kids, and so overthinking allows us to be in control. So it gives us the power back because we didn't have that power when we got adopted or unadopted or given up, and so overthinking usually is a method of us to stay in control say us the adopted community because we finally can have that power and we didn't have it.
Speaker 1:When we were young, I used to be the biggest control freak. That's why I share this, and so when I learned, being a control freak is really my way of being in control, because I wasn't in control, like when I got unadopted, not in my control, when I went foster home to foster home, not in my control. So now that I'm an adult, I was like, oh well, I'm going to get the power back. And so overthinking sometimes not always, I know for me, I'm just sharing my experience my overthinking, being in control, was really a reflex to my early traumas of not being in control, and so it's an interesting paradigm, as you go through this journey of healing, on why things we do and honestly, we're all just reacting to our traumas and when we can start being proactive instead of reactive is when I think the healing journey starts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do appreciate that challenge as well. Am I a control freak? I'm pretty pretty close. But what I will tell you I do know because I've worked on this part is my overthinking first and foremost starts out as a protection mechanism, meaning I have thought through all of the potential scenarios, I have predispositioned myself to what and how I am going to react so I don't overreact, so I'm not hurt, so I'm not getting hurt, so that nothing you say will really impact me and I can go on with my happy merry life right. And so the control component of that is trying to control all of the outcomes and at least know and respond.
Speaker 2:That's the control. Now, do I need it to line up exactly in some particular order? Probably not, because I've thought of all of the you know 17 variations of how this conversation could go and I've also played the whole thing through in my mind to respond. You say, I say, you say I say, you say, I say, you say I say it's crazy. Yeah, and it is exhausting, and I agree with you. That is a condition, very much so around the trauma response and our ability to create protection and mechanisms for ourselves.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean, the crazy part is, like, trauma's not unique to adoptive children. Like, like my adopt, the people who had unadopted me had traumas and they reacted in response to their traumas and so and that's why everything's not black and white, like you know, you, I go back and I can think, like how tough it must have been to raise a kid from Korea who didn't speak the language you know, kimchi and white rice, being thrown into a world of hot dog and hamburgers. Like that must have been tough, man you know, and being you know quote unquote left their birth mom after a year and a half to two years Now, trying to call someone else mom, like I had attachment disorder. Call someone else mom like I had attachment disorder. Like it must have been tough for mom Beasley to to to deal with.
Speaker 1:Like, and now that I'm old enough through my healing process to get it like I have empathy for her. Like her trying to love me and me not loving her back. Like I can only imagine what that feels like. Like if my son didn't love me, dude, I would be like crushed bananas and so crushed, and so she must have been crushed, and so I don't know if she cried all night. I don't know that she went to therapy. I know that she tried to solve it, and so that's why I think that the first step to healing is the first thing that my my therapist had me do is ask me if I was at fault. I was so offended by that question, but then I got it, you know, and then I understood like there's two sides to every story. It's not black and white, there's a lot of gray, and so yeah, can you unpack that just a little bit more for us?
Speaker 2:I I'm not asking you to divulge her secrets in terms of therapy, you know tactics, but what? What really was her point in asking you that type of a question? Was it so you would see the other side of the coin?
Speaker 1:It would get me off of black and white. That was it. I was so black and white. She was the devil. She gave me up, she was the villain in my story, and so she had to get me off the loop that there had to be a villain. Healing is about moving through it, not being stuck. And when you have a villain, healing is about moving through it, not being stuck, and when you have a villain, you're stuck. And so she needed to get me off of this, this loop, and I was stuck in, and now I've been able to move through it again.
Speaker 1:It's not a moment where I'm agreeing what they did is right, but I just allow the moment. I allow the situation of levity and breathing and, like I said, you know I could only she had me imagine. Like could you imagine if your son didn't attach to you? What do you think that felt like? What do you think that would feel like? Like you did not? I have a testosterone disorder, like most adopted children do, and so she's like could you imagine how she opened up her heart to this little kid and this little kid had nothing to do, wanted nothing to do with her?
Speaker 2:yeah, wow. Your comments around that type of a scenario and imagining how I think you call her mama Beasley felt in terms of the inability for you to attach Reminds me of when I first started connecting to the adoptee community. There was an author her name is Barbara Sumner. She wrote Tree of Strangers. She's in Australia and she was doing kind of her book launch circuit and I attended a couple of book clubs and a couple of adoptee happy hours and I don't know which of the three events I attended that. She was. You know, the guest speaker.
Speaker 2:I remember her saying distinctly this and it started to. It was the crack in my facade that I needed in order to start having some empathy towards birth mothers and adopted mothers, but more adopted mothers than birth mothers. She said this I'm going to paraphrase it, but it was around the concept of can you imagine what it was like for a woman who adopted a child who, more times than not, has gone through some level of infertility that they haven't dealt with? And then they are given this baby and they are asked and told treat it as if it was your own. And now you are asking an adult at some point in their life, usually more towards their 20s and 30s, not their 50s and 60s to pretend, pretend. At the same time, there's this child and they know something is not right. And it keeps going year over year.
Speaker 2:And as they become more verbal, what are we asking them to do? Equally pretend. So what we've done is created this potential condition of the great pretenders and we want everybody to come out on the other side of that with such greatness and oh, we're so wonderful and everything is fantastic. And how? What point do you stop pretending? And that sat with me right, that just generalized dialogue and her perspective sat so hard with me for such a long time. But it was what I needed in order to reflect back to my adoptive mother, who we were not close, who I could not attach to, who could not attach to me really, and shaped our relationship. And it was phenomenal. It just gave me what I needed.
Speaker 1:So sometimes it's the small things that are the big tool yeah, I know, I agree, you know, and you know kind of back to my previous saying 10 minutes ago. You know, like if I didn't have the childhood, if I had a childhood I dreamed of, I wouldn't be the man I am today. Like if you had the childhood you dreamed of, we wouldn't be, you would not be impacting thousands of other humans. And so it's really trying to find everything as not polarizing and black and white and having grace for people being human beings. And you know, I'd like to think that everyone tries their best, especially somebody who takes in an adopted child. Like they're just I will not adopt because I know how difficult it is and for the fact that people do this like incredible.
Speaker 1:Like the Beasleys are incredible for doing what they did. Did they fight off more than two? Absolutely. Did they handle it right? Absolutely not. But like they're two humans who are flawed and try to make a decision. They made a decision they regret, or I shouldn't say regret. They made a decision they felt was best for all parties and you know what the funny part is Like it was the best decision for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause, look who we have right, we have you, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's right, and so you know, when you know. You asked me why did she say that? And it's cause, you know. I think that we we get stuck on a story and loop and narrative narratives keep us alive and that's what I learned is like when I was six, when I was eight, like there's a narrative that we told ourselves that made us not feel the pain and we carry that narrative and so my therapist had to break it, and the way she broke it was.
Speaker 1:The truth is, we're all flawed. Dude, why are you having this massive expectation out of a human who also had her traumas, like I don't know what she lived. She could have lived through a divorce, through, you know, domestic violence. I don't know to your point that. I do know that they tried to have another kid and they couldn't, and so, like who knows what that trauma was, maybe her, you know, dad beasley was like made her feel bad as a woman can't do it. It Like I don't know the story, but yet we give ourselves this narrative that keeps us alive and it doesn't do that person justice, or the entire story to breathe, and the way when it breathes is when the healing starts, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's been absolutely phenomenal in terms of our dialogue. Today we're coming to a close, so, mark Ryan Wills, I remembered your middle name and you know it's fantastic. You have such great energy, some really fantastic points for the listeners. As we're closing out and getting ready to say goodbye to one another, is there anything that was really important for you to get across that we just haven't touched on yet today?
Speaker 1:No, I think we've touched on it all. I mean, I just I just hope that if somebody is struggling through their adoption story, just that they know they're not alone, you know, and so thank you for having this community. You know, I have a. I have a huge notary community and I know it feels good for them that they're not alone. So, no, I think we touched on everything and I just want to say thank you for what you're doing for the community. I'm honored to be a little part of your journey and you know, if I had any advice for someone going through the struggle of trying to figure out why something happened.
Speaker 1:It's really about realizing that all life is flawed humans trying to do the best they can for other flawed humans, like we're all flawed, it doesn't matter. Might we know like and what I here's? Let me end with this thought. Actually, I think some I meet other adopted children and I think and and I am a mentor in the foster program here in san diego, so my company loan signing system we donate percentage of every course to this foster care because it's near and dear to me. Do I think the foster care system is perfect? No, but it does the best it can.
Speaker 1:So, anyways, the point of saying that is, sometimes I meet these foster kids and other adoptees and it's like the trauma Olympics, who had it worse. Oh man, no, no, you got to hear my story, dog, like you got it you. Oh my, oh, no, oh, whoa, whoa. And I think we're feeding into our own narrative and we're feeding into this and and the narratives, like building, has to come to rest at some point for us to go through the journey, and so it is. You know, I, I. It's not a contest of who had it worst, right, it's a contest of like, how do we come at an harmony with our story? And so that brings up another point. This is what I do for a living girl I talk.
Speaker 2:So you get it's all good.
Speaker 1:It's all good and so you know, I think you know. I think another thing that and I think this relates to us as an adoptees is like I don't actually think we're looking to get in peace with our story. I think that's the wrong word. I think we're looking to be in harmony with it. Peace almost has an ending, you know, like it's almost like this finite destination, like I'm at peace, I am there and I don't think we're ever there.
Speaker 1:When you're dealing with traumas, it's we come in harmony with our journey, and when I mean by harmony, we end up just kind of living with it.
Speaker 1:Right, it's like this part of us versus it is us, because, you know, I chose to turn my trauma in a triumph, from pain into passion, and that was a decision I made, right, and I think we all can make that decision.
Speaker 1:So I don't think we're looking for peace, I think we're looking for harmony to what's happened to us and I would tell everybody, wherever they're at, they're beautiful, they're perfect the way they are. We are who we are not because of it. We are who we are because, you know, in spite of who we are, we are who we are because of who we are and I think when we all know that we're beautiful and we're perfect and we're worthy and we're good enough, I think that's when the healing starts, because everyone listening to this is good enough and they are worthy of success. They're worthy of living in harmony with their journey. And so if we can just loosen up this grip on our narrative and this grip on our story and it had to be like this or had to be a villain and we can just be in harmony with what's happened, I think life is beautiful on the other side, man. So I hope what I shared helps somebody. But just thank you for having me on dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much for coming on today, and, as you continue through your journey, you are always welcome here, anytime, any reason. I agree with you. I have a mission, one person. If I touch one person, I'm good. I know, like you, I've touched many, many more people. I don't take that for granted at all, and so thank you for dedicating some time today to give back to our community and to come in with such a level of positivity and thoughts. And yeah, beautifully said. Thank you so much yeah.
Speaker 1:If you want to follow. I'm going to do a shameless plug here, but it's relative. If you follow my Instagram, I'm very open with my story to my community. My Instagram reel on my journey has 8 million views. My story's gone viral a few times, so my point of saying that is like I'm an open book. I'm an open book when I'm in therapy. I'm an open book on my journey. So I'm open book on my journey. So if people want to follow me Loan Signing System on Instagram or Mark Wills on YouTube I share my journey fairly regularly and I share my mental health struggles. I share my. So if anybody wants to follow along, I am a work in progress and I'm an open book, so feel free to DM me if you have any questions or whatnot, but hopefully that helps.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to today's episode of Wandering Tree Podcast. Please rate, review and share this out so we can experience the lived adoptee journey together. Want to be a guest on our show? Check us out at wanderingtadoptingcom.